Have you used CQ?

One of the biggest issues was the speed of progress. Incarna took almost a year and was released with just one interior complete. It took them another expansion to get the other races done.

Then you must consider the fact that Incarna as it was delivered is unusable for its original design. Its simply too resource intensive for the majority of people to use if other people will be interacting on screen.

It was poorly conceived and executed. It would really be have to remade from scratch and I (along with many others) don't want to lose a another year to Barbie Dress-up in Space.

They lost almost 1/3 of their players. IT was nto a few..w as enough that CCP had to lay off a large ammount of their workforce. IT was a clear statemernt.. focus on incarna and loose the whole game within a year.

turns out it was terrible

well said... so does anyone know if CCP is going to revisit walking in stations? or is it dead for good

That's fine. If people can't live without wizard robes and dance emotes they shouldn't be playing Eve in the first place.

They say they don't want those things but when they actually list what they do want wizard robes and dance emotes are actually less offensive. Roleplayers are the worst.

And there in a nutshell is the problem. Eve can be many things, but a development team can only focus on one thing at a time. In 2010 I remember CCP announcing there would be no development on any other aspect of the game other than WIS / Incarna for the next 18 months.

Sure they screwed up, but the real hatred for WIS is that everything else went out the window for an incredibly long time before CCP finally gave up on the project and that is why so many are against CCP trying to divert resources to it again.

To all those people talking about WiS that was almost complete and then arbitrarily thrown out to start again on a new engine. Rubbish! WiS failed, for whatever reason they couldn't get it working. They gave up on it. What we got was a face saving exercise, which failed to do even that. CCP are never going to work on it again, but after so much time and effort wasted, they are too embarrassed to admit it. That is why no CCP employee has commented on this thread.

Then explain why people are *still* crying about WiS when CCP has made it very clear that Eve is about spaceships. Incarna was over two years ago...if you can't live with the state of avatar gameplay at this point why are you still playing?

No, you didn't.

And this is why I loathe roleplayers.

Has anyone even suggested what they want to do apart from the perennial "Sit in a bar"?

Let's hope CCP keeps their promise to focus on real Eve content.

Repeat after me... "DUST killed WIS".

That vote already happened when so many people cancelled their accounts over Incarna CCP had to fly in the CSM for an emergency summit.

Well, technically they cancelled because real Eve content was ignored for two years while CCP worked on Dust and CARBON.

You don't have to guess about anything. Thousands of people stopped giving money to CCP right after Incarna was released.

Sure they did. I guess you didn't play back then.

This is the truth, the rest is revisionism (some times caressed by Tippia as well).

Nobody except the usual powerblocs prima donnas and their feet lickers was against WiS.

We (I organized a part of it) revolted because of factors that led to the WiS fiasco but also to a ton of other fiascos at that time: lack of quality, of morality, disgusting greed both shown in our face and in internal documents and even on 3rd party freeware developers.

These and these were the threads circulating at the time. Some will recognize in those threads posters, the players who would brew up the Big Revolt. I.e. Miilla.

All that discontent got awesomely summed up by a true Disgruntled Playerbase Manifesto for that era: Alter bad new company direction, STOP rushing stuff out made by one of the few posters worth undying respect: Akita T.

That was a whole Dark CCP Age, WiS came up so bad because it was half assed like the rest of the garbage (i.e. Dominion and then PI) they made at that time. WiS fiasco is due to CCP overpromising and vastly underdelivering, not because of players opposition.

Sure, some player organizations and their lacch+¬s were well interested into immediately putting blame and shame on WiS (and later, on Incursions, guess why?) but they are just hollow liars talking their interest.

When you say "People weren't mad about Incarna, they were mad about microtransactions" you chose to overlook the fact that the only reason Incarna was developed in the first place was as an environment to show off your microtransactions.

What relevance do either of those two aspects(not mentioned in your original inaccurate statement) have to do with whether they existed or not?

And dont edit my reply to fit with your view

AND I cant say care if you take my post seriously

Thats also not anything to do with your statement not being accurate

You can scroll up and see that not only have I engaged the people who offered ideas, I even explained my position of being in favour of WiS if practical uses were going to be forthcoming, which many of the suggestions were.

So how about you actually read posts before you comment on them

Or are you just here to give me a hard time, eh?

And if by not answering you mean not evoking the "not-named game", then I dont know what else to say on the matter

You are moving the goal posts.

So why are you suggesting that no such thing existed!?

It HAD to exist and within literally SECONDS of you making it clear you believed that this concept was not in existance in 2006 I found a game from 2005 that had a solid player base and was micro transaction based!

But no its okay, I must be lying because this argument is so much fun for me...

As you point out, they have been talking about walking in stations since 2006. Which is well before the micro-transactions business model was in use in EvE.

In 2006 people would have laughed at you for talking about selling in game items for real money In EvE.

TTP: 0.0001 seconds.

Maybe we should re-brand it as EVE on Foot or something rather than Walking in Stations. Really get the point across that just walking around and looking pretty, while that's a side of things that people enjoy (I do) what we're really after is EVE in the sandboxy, dangerous, risk-versus-reward PvP sense, but avatar-based and complimentary to the spaceships.

When the Devs and the community decide that the game is balanced. Don't get me wrong, I would like to see more "stuff to do" inside a station but right now there are more important things to focus on.

I would love to see the Dev's work on Null Sec and/or work on some of the things implemented from Rubicon.

I consider all of those things to be irritations rather than actual game-breaking flaws that need immediate and urgent action.

I also consider the lack of avatar content to be an irritation, but I rate it as a more important irritation that should be prioritized ahead of all that stuff. I know for a fact that I am not alone in this.

All of which just goes to prove that waiting for community consensus on when the time is right and in what order things should be prioritized would leave us doomed, stuck in development hell.

Personally, I feel like a cycle of working on new features for a bit then working on polish, then features, then polish would serve CCP well. I think we've had much polish and little feature of late, I hope we move into a "features" cycle soon, and I hope that cycle includes more avatar content.

That's been my entire point for the last couple of years lol. Why not just play game x

Every person in EVE spending time "ambulating around a station" is spending less time in space participating in EVE. WiS is litterally bad for the game.

WiS could work, though Id actually rather have Walking In Ships tbh

No Man's Sky

The question is why keep pushing for something that the makers of the game TELL YOU is not a priority and to which there is little discernible community support when you could actually be playing another game doing the things you say are important to you ie walking around?

Everyone you just listed would have zero impact on the game if the vast majority of characters never undocked.

EVE is a space game, everything else (like it's markets, its politics, it's player community) revolve around space ships flying in space. As we've demonstrated to ccp in the past (and will happily do so again if they ever become fool enough to listen to you fringe WiS types again), ANYTHING that detracts from the focus on space ships will be dealt with great vengeance and furious anger, to the detriment to Jita monuments everywhere. You can dislike that all you want.

Yes little community support. The actual community, not the forums.

How many WiS CSMs did your massive landslide of WiS community support elect?

Nothing like a good dose of false equivalence. In the morning. When CCP ignored the core of the game for a long time, that was cause for concern. The wants of fringe WiS malcontents is not.

Except that this is a video game featuring spaceships. This is why I say WiS people are delusional. If a player gets blown up in space, this spurs economic activity. What kind of economic activity could they generate if they got killed walking in a station? OMG someone please make this dude a new t-shirt, his last one got bloody?

You can cover lies again if you wish, but revisionist history doesn't prove any point.

We get it, you don't like space ships and think walking around (and activity you could do by getting up[ and moving your legs) would be better. Sorry, others of us like space ships and want to play a space ship game. We will make this point to CCP over and over again if necessary, like we've done in the past.

You seem to think you matter lol.

WWWWWWWHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!

A person with a more healthy sense of self esteem would be like "well, that guy doesn't agree, but who cares, he's not CCP".

...

It demonstrates a level of uncertainness and gives fuel to your detractors Davon. you might want to think about that.

"Debating Jenn aSide on the topic of Avatar Content is rather like trying to play chess with a pigeon; it knocks the pieces over, craps on the board, and flies back to its flock to claim victory."

For me its sort out sov, continue on the balancing where needed and have a look at WIS if you can, I hope that we will get something in stations and the CQ shows what CCP can do.

But it came down to this: CCP spend a god awful amount of time and money developing WIS and upon delivery it was an absolute and total disaster. A single room that added zero.zero meaningful gameplay to the game.

The origin of 18 months, just as a further FYI.

CCP has/had nothing that added to any meaningful gameplay for WiS.

It has been fantastic to see the Avatar team show everyone that there is meaningful gameplay using more than just your ship as your agent in the EVE Universe. The prototyping work they have done in Unity has allowed them to rapidly explore different themes and make a game which is challenging, fun and in the true spirit of EVE.

That's right, and If i had to guess I'd guess that the true "high sec only" player was a smaller minority than "null seccers" are thought to be. I think many players "dabble" at leas tin other areas.

And as for mission runners and incursion runners, lots of them are null/low sec alts making isk for other things, hell some of my FC buddies in TVP aren't shy about telling you who their null alts are.

EVE residents: 5% Wormholes; 8% Lowsec; 20% Nullsec; 67% Highsec.

EVE residents: 8% Wormholes; 13% Lowsec; 33% Nullsec; 46% Highsec.

Because the vast majority don't want it, as demonstrated by the in game player base protests when CCP put their hands up and dropped it.

Inb4Tippia and storys about this all being wrong

Maybe you people need to know what time is it to develop such thing.

There isn't 5 minutes, because they need to create a lot of things without a base.

regardless of whether or not other players think it sounds awesome and want them to go ahead with it?

Sounds familiar.

Instead of making threads like this, people need to get together and develop a 5 year new plan.

Stupidity*. We, the clever guys don't need to make ad-hominems.

Instead of making threads like this

Yeah, no.

So, WiS is the victim?

Lol. Good luck with that one. I don't need what you describe as "evidence" to tell you that the expansion that wasted all of it's dev time on a feature they could not even seriously attempt to deliver which still managed to destroy high end machines at the time (thereby cutting of a huge portion of the playerbase), as well as being totally unrelated to either flying spaceships or blowing up spaceships in a game exclusively focused on flying and blowing up spaceships was a bad idea.

And if you think it's a good one, you're a fool. You can go play with your Barbie dolls in some other game, quit trying to shoehorn it into this one.

It's disingenuous to try and separate out WiS from micro-transactions when they were both aspects of the same underlying failing in CCP management. WiS was reformed into Incarna as a catwalk environment for players to show off their NeX Store purchases, if it hadn't been for the tilt towards the micro-transactions and Greed Is Good mindset you'd still likely be waiting for ambulation today.

As it is, anyone looking forward to WiS should be loudly celebrating the failure of Incarna since it led CCP to the revolutionary concept that just maybe, six years into development, they should try creating some actual gameplay content for it. WiS will be a much better feature when it finally gets a proper release since just maybe there will be something to do other than trying on monocles and jackets and drinking pretend space beer in a pretend space pub.

I feel strongly inclined to do so

Blah blah blah

The WiS types believe (like the "no local" and "afk cloaking" crowds) that if you just talk about it enough it will "attract the attention of some DEV". It's a bunch of impotent flailing because some DEVs already want this kind of stuff to happen as evidenced by the "future of out prototype" thread. It's the CCP EXECUTIVE BOARD that says "nope, FiS now and for the forseeable future".

The Executive board made the wise decision to focus company efforts on what time has proven to them is the important things (space ships) and the stakes (for them) are infinitely higher than they are for any of you who pay the equivalent of 15 bucks a month for entertainment software. It's bad business to throw good man after bad and CCP's executive board looked at YEARS of wasted time on ambulation and said enough of this for now, no more".

Organize. Get all these mythical WiS supporters to make a new account each and activate it with a PLEX. Fill all 3 character spots with characters with "WiS in their names" (ie WiS Jenn aSide, WiS infinity, and so on).

You don't have to do anything with this account, let it lapse when it's time is up, but you will have shown CCP that YOU are willing to pay for this stuff that you think will be awesome but that people like me think is nothing but a useless space barbie distraction. PROVE to these DEVs that by giving you what you want they won't end up on an Icelandic Breadline like some of their Atlantian counterparts.

Because that's really what you WiS people are asking, for people who feed their children with the money they get paid from a game company to risk losing their jobs if you're wrong and WiS ends up costing CCP money. So mitigate their risks, give them money and say "we got your back, now open the CQ door".

Because what you people are doing now is saying "i pay 15 bux, i want WiS", which does nothing but put you on even ground with those of us who want this space ship game to be about. space ships.

Prove the executive board made their decisions based off what people on a forum did.

We have decided, to focus our collective efforts on the areas you have asked us to focus on

The CSM, an organisation literally picked by the playerbase to represent their collective concerns, were flown to Reykjavik to discuss the post-Incarna fallout with CCP's management face to face.

Its like you're not even trying.

Assuming that you are right

What is the constant bumping of this thread supposed to achieve?

Given there are at least three strongly differing points of view in this thread but only a small number of posters, why would action be taken by CCP based on what they may or may not read here?

Given the very very few of even GD who post here now, where is the support for whatever this thread is supposed to make happen in the general community, if that is indeed how the community gets CCP to change things for them?

No, wait, by CCP Rise in his AMA.

The official word is out, but nobody cares to listen or accept it.

CCP Rise's opinion voiced during his reddit IamA was reasonable, but just because the focus is mainly on the spaceship game does not mean that nobody here has an interest to make meaningful Avatar gameplay within the EVE universe happen. (-:

Are you capable of anything but ad hominem attacks?

In all fairness, calling somebody out for their grammatical errors isn't exactly a debate-winning strategy, dude. It's really just petty and misses the point.

Argue against the intent of the arguments, not the mistakes in how they were phrased.

Maybe there should be a seperate thread about the merits of Internet space democracy?

No valid election is unrepresentative, the result represents the people who voted. I know every time i started the launcher I was greeted by a news item about the CSM election.

Lots of people simply chose to go unrepresented, that's not the fault of people who actually vote.

Not in EVE:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1942633#post1942633

Bitter vet stuff.

23 pages and 11 days later still no post from a Dev to this topic. Makes me kinda sad.

Anyway, check out that thread, it had a few dev responses that were positive for a while, but eventually those responses were relegated by decisions from higher-ups. Needless to say we won't be getting WiS anytime soon.

\

I like their new vision and am one of the people who asked them for it. It would be better for you to speak for yourself Davon.

Sorry guys but the idea of a new region has been pushed by quite a few people on many threads, most notably those dealing with local/AFK cloaking.

Have you thought about this space having no local and not within jump range of current space? The force projection is one of the reasons why many systems are empty, as well as the poor rewards from those systems without IHUB's. I should know as I spend most of my time in 0.0 using that type of space. CCP could test a number of things with a new region if they want to, most notably removing local.

EDIT: I would suggest not being dismissive of other things developed within Eve, the new region is a great idea, will bring interest, improving sov warfare will improve the game if done right, the new POS system and new deployable structures will add to the game, and the added immersion of WiS will add to the game.

This is where I would usually insult your intelligence, but apparently I am not allowed to do that. Instead I will say, go back and read the thread. They didn't take 18 months to make the CQs. That engine wasn't superfluous. CARBON is also the basis for all the new UIs, the V3 textures and TiDi amongst many other things. I wouldn't be surprised if all of the changes since Incarna were made with the CARBON engine.

Nothing tying them to the games engine... right... aside from the fact that the entire game runs on it you mean? Right?



It's not just a cry, it's verifiable fact. With links and references to devs saying it all over the thread. If you can find one dev post to the contrary, then i'll metaphorically eat my hat.

Then stop posting lol, your making yourself look like a fool.

You see, when a person starts losing a debate, they tend to do things like this. You have no counter to the truth I'm telling you, so all you can do is snipe.

Understand that I'm taking no joy from seeing you angry (lol I'm not a Goon), I'm demonstrating to you (using your own reaction) why you and your type are losing this fight. And you are losing, WiS isn't on the menu.

You should be trying to build a consensus rather that being butt hurt and delusional. You should be trying to be open to WHY what you want isn't happening and understanding it (so you can work with it).

But oh well, feel free to continue to flap around impotently while being upset on an internet forum. It's your life to live and your time you are wasting.

Birds of a feather. It's simply a weakness of your collective egos that the manner of my telling you the truth is upsetting to you. You are not alone, there are others who post here who are of the same squeamish sort. if you can be content to lose the fight for what you want (Avatar based gameplay) because you don't like how it was said, that demonstrates a problem way beyoind anything CCP can fix for you.

I don't care about how you feel (nor should you care about how I feel or what i say). Blunt truth can only hurt those who can't take it. HTFU if you truly want this game company we are customers of to do what you want them to.

I can say whatever I want, but you can't. And when I say it, it's the truth, because I said it. Y'all need to HTFU (ie take my word as truth because I am a bad ass Texan Yeeeeeehhhaaaaa!)

This is a good point to keep in mind.

As much as people say, focus on space, fix space, only do space, there is a catch. The question of starting WIS is not when everything in space is perfect and complete - because it NEVER will be. But rather...when is it good enough? or appropriate to say, ok we have done what we want in space for now, lets go back to avatar gameplay.

How many expansions will it take? If we go by pure space lovers, will you come to a point with all the space updates that you would finally agree, yeah its time for avatars? I think not, and rather people who only want space, want just that, for all eternity and nothing else.

So basically, when is the time for avatars?

Because no matter when it starts, the fact is, space will not be perfect when it does. Its a question when...not if, when WIS comes again.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay

CCP Rise's opinion voiced during his reddit IamA was reasonable, but just because the focus is mainly on the spaceship game does not mean that nobody here has an interest to make meaningful Avatar gameplay within the EVE universe happen. (-:

See, we're about to go into some deep, scary, mostly uncharted waters here.

This is not going to be easy to frame correctly, but I will try, without prejudice, to explain why I have become a bit cynical and conservative when it comes to my opinions and expectations for games like EVE.

The "living, breathing universe" that is EVE has nothing to do with the actual game itself. The game is a platform for human interaction. Interaction remarkably different than what is happening in this thread. Different than what is happening in any thread on any forums. It begins with the login. Then the fascination. Then the moderate addiction. And while this happening, you are become more and more social in this environment. You start talking on comms. You make friends there. You become invested in whatever plan your corp or alliance or whatever is cooking up, as well as in the people who make up those groups.

And now you're knee-deep in EVE's comparatively unique brand of "living and breathing". Because here, both the good and the bad just hangs out. There is fame. There is infamy. There is an actual, tangible connection to the community that extends far beyond what conventional mmos offer. Star Wars Galaxies, as you mentioned, had a touch of this. The canvas of that game was painted with depth of mind and a love of freedom. Here, too, we have it. Only it's bigger. And we laugh louder. And we rage harder. And we get all up in each other's faces and each other's businesses. And we compete.

This environment has been constructed around the core concepts of mass coordination, group participation, the risk of significant loss, and the grandeur of deep space. So far, CCP has maintained and even built constructively upon the platform we log into when we fire EVE up. However, in terms of where we (as players) want the company to go, opinions have always been as firm and competitive as the rest of the game. In this instance, my opinion is that further developing avatar content (and ultimately maintaining and improving it) leads the game away from the aforementioned core features.

No, we're afraid that real Eve content will get ignored for another two years and the result will be even worse than the CQ. Based on the current status of DUST and WoD there is every reason to be fearful.

2.-Stations
-Its like adding more regions so each station is a new region that has 5 floors (constellations) and 4-5 districst (systems)

-all floors should not be available they will be unlocked when the above floor is full and the price for renting space will grow exponentially.For example jita top floor will be very expensive the second floor less an so on until the fifth floor, but still the fifht floor will be more expensive than another station with only one floor and one district full.

-Each station will... etc

You missed point c) which was the most relevant. Summer of Rage was not just about MT, altho some of you want to desperately revise it. We saw the proposed WiS, and tbh, all a lot of us thought was. Hid yo wallet. Our game, our fwiends, for this crap. Also, my graphics card buhuh. Mass unsubbing. Never forget.